I take a pro-environment but critical and scientific and open-eyed look at hybrid cars, with a focus on the Toyota Prius, since it’s like “the” hybrid car.
A number of experimental tests are done as well as an analysis through theory on gas milage, production, breakeven energy, and more.
The Canadian energy coordinator worked for Greenpeace.
(Song is Mozart’s Requiem “Lacrimosa” (K . 626))
Duration : 0:9:59
Tags: car, cars, change, clean, climate, damage, Electric, environment, gas, global, hummer, hybrid, hydrogen, lesbian, oil, prius, warming
I’ll get back to …
I’ll get back to you. Right now I am relocating from backward primitive UK to mainland Europe. Have next to no internet at the moment. I seem to have way different stats re consumption etc than you do, chiefly from the German mag “auto motor und sport”. Compares all hybrids including hydrgen etc etc ina test from south of Germany to the North. Must be about 1000Km. Will be in touch again.
One last thing.
…
One last thing.
the 2010 VW Golf Diesel is currently rated at 42mpg on the highway.
The 2010 Toyota Prius is currently rated at 48mpg on the highway.
The Golf is rated at 30mpg in the city.
The Prius is rated at 51mpg in the city.
How exactly is the prius not winning? It’s beating it in all categories of fuel economy.
Coupled with the fact that diesel has more energy per gallon when compared to gas.
I don’t care which wins to be honest. As long as conventional cars go away.
At that site, if …
At that site, if you look at how the engine is setup BETWEEN the electric motors, you will find the electric motors are pretty much always being used.
It’s also interactive. Try it out.
The prius transmission uses the electric motors as basically an electric torque converter.
How would you define “large conventional ICE”? 2 liters? 4 liters? 1.4 liters?
What’s a small conventional ICE?
half a liter? 150 cc? 50cc?
The prius engine is -in my opinion- one of the smallest engines out there.
cont.
The prius …
cont.
The prius engine can turn off completely when traveling below 41mph. Also, the rpm of the engine and the electric motors are not matched. Thus, it does not fall into the definition of a parallel hybrid.
Do yourself a favor and google: Toyota Prius Power Split Device
The first search result should be eahart (dot) com
The power of a hybrid does not determine what type of hybrid it is.
Find a credible …
Find a credible source that says the prius is a parallel hybrid. Its not.
Here’s the definition of a parallel hybrid:
Parallel hybrids can be categorized by the way the two sources of power are mechanically coupled. If they are joined at some axis truly in parallel, the speeds at this axis must be identical and the supplied torques add together. When only one of the two sources is being used, the other must either also rotate in an idling manner or be connected by a one-way clutch or freewheel.
Are you measuring …
Are you measuring torque at the wheel or the output shaft?
I think the prius …
I think the prius is classed as a parallel hybrid. Full series means one power source preferably electric with another source to provide the power, eg petrol driving a gen’ which drives the e motors. The prius is an extremely weak parallel hybrid with either the weak electric driving or the large conventional IC (99% of the time as the electric can’t hack it). The Prius will only win over a pure diesel in nox but not range. Hence the entire german car industry didn’t bother & made better diesels
The effeciency has …
The effeciency has been measured so far to 98.7%. Way good enough. Unit stays cold under full load. Not off the shelf components. Management of power to ultracaps, batteries and other storage. Down hill and breaking recoup along with the said components etc will work. Getting very high torque from e motors is not tough stuff. Armies now investing in silent very high torque vehicles. Can’t say more.
of course ultracaps …
of course ultracaps are short term storage. I said that it will be a mix of all of them… the ultracaps will receive current very quickly and discharge accrodingly. The electronics and magement will react extremely quickly and distribute and retrieve where necessary.
good god no… an …
good god no… an electric motor for a car with only 200Nm is a joke. These numbers are utterly real and will be higher in future. 2000 Nm exists and will be higher.
I’ll believe that …
I’ll believe that claim of 2000Nm when I see it. If it was 200Nm or 800Nm per motor, then sure, I’ll believe that.
I know electric motors have tons of torque, but I think you may be overstating how powerful your electric motor is.
Last I checked, …
Last I checked, ultra caps were still very limited in power storage capacity. AND very expensive.
They may be the future, but they need to increase capacity and decrease cost first.
I’m going to take your claim of 99% energy regeneration with a big grain of salt. There is a thing called conversion losses. Mechanical energy to electrical energy has a loss. I doubt you’ve reduced that to 1%.
Maybe that 99% is for the first foot of regeneration. By then, the ultra caps would probably be filled.
re: series.
So …
re: series.
So that means that, Yes, the prius is a “full” hybrid. Although a “weak” powered one, it still is a “full” hybrid.
it will be a …
it will be a complex mix of batteries, ultra caps, 99% efficient power recoueration devices linked to the new motors, the small generator, and last but in fact least the plug in capability as without people will complain if it isn’t there… but no harm charging overnight if you don’t use it. Will make mince meat of ferraris astons etc as they are all ices.
re series, that’s …
re series, that’s correct. Yes.
there will be an …
there will be an electric motor for each wheel, not one for all 4. There will be no gearbox (a gearbox as you will know is only a wheel chair for IC engines that need to produce power by rpm). E’ motors produce full torque from 0 to max as you will know. 2000Nm already exists. No big deal. HP is a calc of torque and rpm. Masses of torque= high efficiency. The tesla doesn’t bother us. Simple motor. The power will come from either small petrol or diesel to turn a generator.nox etc well under 30gr
Oh and one last …
Oh and one last thing: I think you’ve been talking about a SERIES hybrid, where a gas/diesel generator charges a battery, which then powers an electric motor.
The vehicle can drive on electric only, but can’t drive with only gas power, as it must be converted to battery power first.
I have my doubts …
I have my doubts that your electric motor can produce that much torque. For example, the tesla roadster produces only 273 lb-ft (369.72Nm) of torque, and it already costs over 100k!
Your saying that your electric motors produce an order of magnitude more torque. I’ll give you the benefit of the doubt.
But, what exactly is going to power these electric motors? And how much is it going to cost compared to a hybrid?
Yeah I know that electric is the future, BUT It needs to be financially viable.
Marketing is not …
Marketing is not the only thing that sells cars. Word of mouth is MUCH more effective at selling stuff.
If its trash and doesn’t meet expectations, there WOULDN’T be any good word of mouth. That’s why people aren’t buying American hybrids, because they ARE junk. A huge premium for like a 1-2 mpg gain.
Most intelligent people don’t just buy all the marketing BS that is tossed out there. They take it with a grain of salt and do research BEFORE they buy – especially on something expensive!
Cite your sources …
Cite your sources that define what a “full hybrid” is then.
People won’t buy …
People won’t buy junk??? What do you think the job of marketing people is? The world is FULL of junk, driven by lobbies and the delibearte keeping of pure crap in the market… BECAUSE IT SELLS! My dear fellopw, I guess my remarks have been a bit ahrsh, I apologize, but really, you need to open your eyes. There is some insider stuff I just can’t talk about, but the world is one big lie. We smashed the out of Iraq because od whopping great lies etc. Marketing is only accepted lying.Stories
there is no such …
there is no such thing as a full hybrid?? I’m in the business with patents that will grip in about 5 to 10 years from now (because of the lobby). Your comments are trash. The torque and power generated by new type electric motors is extremely high. Right now we can produce 4 electric motors one for each wheel with over 2000Nm torque (=8000Nm!!!!). There is a clear definition of full hybrids. I simply can’t argue with someone who doesn’t know what they are talking about. Time will show you.
“The electric part …
“The electric part is hyper weak and only kicks in under very little strain. ”
The electric part is actually LIMITED by the amount of available power that the battery has. Sure, toyota could say: F the battery, i’ll let the electric motors eat as much power as you want.
You’ll then have tons of DEAD batteries on the road. Heavy discharge and recharge cycles destroys battery life. It decreases efficiency too.
How big is the …
How big is the prius engine compared to the golf engine?
Answer:
The 2010 golf is a 2 liter engine. The 3rd gen Prius is a 1.8 liter engine. The 2nd gen prius is a 1.4 liter engine.
Please. Read up on the facts. Your “very small diesel” engine is bigger then the “large petrol engine” that the 3rd gen prius has.
The Prius is not …
The Prius is not junk because it is a success. People won’t buy junk.
If the VW or whatever other brand was as hot as your claiming it to be, the VW would be on top.
Tell me: what mileage does the VW diesel get in stop and go traffic that stretches for miles?